Nearly all of the music I like has been inspired by what came before it or has at least some reference to the past. Indeed, the only producers I love who have always claimed that no one else inspires them are Drexciya, even though I never believed this. I also don't buy Omar S' claim that he listens to no other producer - surely it's impossible to make music in a vaccum? If he had never listened to anyone else, how come the (admittedly great) music he makes is a form of house music and something we have never heard or even conceived of? Anyway, I'm willing to indulge the caprices of a maverick producer like Omar S or Drexciya, but I think that when a producer blatantly copies another one, then he/she has overstepped the mark. In 2002, Dan Bell claimed that Josh Wink had copied his 'Phreak' track on Wink's 'SuperPhreak' release and that Wink had also copied production techniques that he (Bell) had pioneered. Furthermore, Bell claimed that this was audible on Wink's 'Don't Laugh', which, he said, used the same vocal fading technique as his own 'Losing Control'. At the time I wanted to write a story about the argument (which was eventually published). Bell outlined his argument in an email, but when it came to speak to Wink, his PR at the time called me and threatened me with legal action if I wrote a story that cast his client in an unfavourable light. I'd never been threatened before, so I laughed at the guy and published the story (unfortunately, it's not online). The whole episode seemed to fizzle out without resolution and Bell even said in an interview last year that he wanted to forget the whole thing. However, in an interview for his new album, a journalist described Wink as one of the arcitects of minimalism thanks to 'Don't Laugh'. It was an ill-informed remark, but just to put the cat among the pigeons and see if there would be any reaction, I repeated the allegations Bell had made in 2002 on an RA thread about a podcast Wink did for the site. One or two replies, but no response from Wink or any of his fans. No one seemed to care. The following week, RA publishes an interview with Shlomi Aber, who last year was accused of ripping off Aril Brikha's 'Groove La Chord' (having listened to both tracks, I feel the similarities are way too close for it to be a coincidence). Aber's replies in the interview about the allegations are very weak and don't lend much weight to his argument that he didn't knowingly copy Brikha. Consequently, the reaction to him on the site's forum has been pretty negative, but why was it so muted for the allegations about Wink? After all, if the claims are true, then what Wink has done is perhaps more serious- copying production techniques. Do people not want to question an established name like Wink's credibility, or are they willing to put the boot into a less well-known name like Aber (who I'm not defending). It seems like a strange imbalance in values, slate the young pretender, revere the old 'innovator' - or are people afraid to ask the bigger question, that these kind of rip offs have been going on since electronic music's year zero?
« January 2009 | Main | March 2009 »
Bloc File: Altern 8
Nice one, top one, sorted! Mark Archer, one half of rave situationists Altern 8 is the latest person to come under the microscope, as the count down to Bloc 09 gets well and truly under way. Here, he talks about those masks, his and Chris Peat’s Nexus 21 alter ego and rave music’s relevance nowadays…
You probably have been asked this millions of times, but where did the idea for the yellow masks come from? Was it because a lot of people going to raves were wearing masks at the time?
“As far as I can remember, no one was wearing masks at raves before we started, not that I want to try and claim a fashion (albeit a suspect one) to myself but it wasn't something people did. We started purely to hide our identities as we were 'known' as Nexus 21 and didn't want people to realise we were the same group.”
Did the masks and the overall image help you to break through?
Obviously you had the tunes as well…
“I think it helped from the fact that we had an image so people could recognise Altern 8 as most other groups were lads with ponytails and you couldn't tell them apart image-wise, but the first release with eight tracks for the price of two helped in a bigger way than we first thought. It got DJs on our side with the value for money element - then when ‘Infiltrate 202’ came along, people were already aware of us.”
What was the period of your life like when you were in the charts, playing Top of the Pops and performing at huge raves every weekend? Was it so wild that you can't remember much of it?
“It was amazing, we didn't expect the tracks to do as well as they did but the success meant we pretty much traveled the length and breadth of the country as well as abroad doing PAs and DJing plus all the TV appearances, sometimes doing up to six gigs in a week. Top of the Pops was an experience I never thought I’d witness as a kid and it allowed us to meet a lot of big names too. “
Didn't one of you stand as a candidate in a local election in the 90s? Would you ever stand again as a candidate? When you were coming to prominence in the early 90s, the Tories were in charge - has much changed since then politically, or have Labour made a big mess of things too?
“I’ve never really been one for politics to be honest, us standing for local election was just one of the many daft things we did to help keep our name in the public eye. Seems whoever is in power starts off well then loses public support, I'll stick to my music if it's all the same.”
What do you make of all the people who come to Altern 8 gigs now wearing rave gear like face masks and visibility jackets, some of whom were just babies when you were first on the scene? Is it good that they know the roots of the music or do you find it a bit sad that they are wearing the same old gear? Has there been a distinctive look since then in electronic music?
“I don't think there has really since the early 1990s, when you had the change year on year from 1988 up to 1990, then the whole high vis thing was around 1992/1993 and all the house and trance lot were wearing Destroy and leather trousers. It's all been a bit samey since then but it's nice that we are still remembered 18 years on, it's not something I could ever have bargained on back then. It's just mad when there's people in the crowd who are younger than the NBC suit I’m wearing!”
Do you do gigs now as Altern 8 to 'pay the bills' or do you enjoy playing old school sets? Do you think that there's a danger that you become a rave tribute act or is it good to remind people of electronic dance music's roots?
“I still DJ because I enjoy it, seeing a crowd go off when a tune breaks down, still get that buzz every time. It's not just a nostalgia trip for 30 somethings, it's a whole style of music that's as valid today as it's always been, just another genre along with all the others that house has created in its 20 plus years and one that crowds still want to hear. When a lot of the people who are clubbing probably have never heard of anything older than from 2003, it's nice to be able to play tunes that may be new to them.”
Apparently those ‘Old School Euphoria’ mix CDs are big sellers: do you think there are a lot of people out there now with money who want to remember the early 90s and its music?
“Yes, a lot of people who went out back then didn't buy records, they just had mix tapes etc so these CDs are a way of them sort of getting them back (but way better quality) - and for a lot of people, this was the best time ‘musically’ of their lives, the time they discovered dance music and the whole rave scene.”
The hardcore/rave/bleep sounds play a huge role in contemporary electronic music: why do you think that period of music from the late 1980s to the early 1990s was so important and has had such a lasting effect?
“It was a really 'fast-forward' time of musical experimentation and cross-pollination of styles. Sounds were changing year on year and there were a lot of sounds then that were way ahead of their time, so it makes sense that these sounds are going to be brought back into play within new genres. The rave scene from the late 1980s and early 1990 was a massive part of British dance music and will (I think) remain a very big influence.”
Do you keep up with current music and if so, what producers are you into and why?
“There's way too many different genres to keep up with and with gigging every weekend, I don't ever really get to go clubbing as such. But I'm well into Detroit techno as I have been for years so I follow that really with producers like Stephen Brown, Arne Weinberg, Strand and Sui Generis.”
I'm a huge Nexus 21 fan and have always preferred that music to Altern 8's; were you disappointed that it didn't get as much recognition or success as Altern 8?
“I wasn't disappointed as some of my peers cite Nexus 21 as the reason they started to make music and that is praise indeed! It was just a shame that the workload we had for Altern 8 meant it was pretty much impossible to carry on with the Nexus 21 project and by the time Altern 8 was laid to rest as a production outfit, it was too late to resurrect Nexus 21.”
You recently released an excellent EP 'Ring of Gyges', which reminded me a lot of the old Nexus 21 sound - is this what inspired the release? Is Mutate your label?
“The solo work I've done over the past few years such as 'Ring of Gyges' on Mutate ( a label run by Edzy from Unique 3 and Robert Page of Super DJ Bobzilla fame ) and 'Songs For Einna' on DS93 which was released in 2007 directly continues on from what I was doing in Nexus 21. These are the tracks that I wanted to make back then but didn't have the musical knowledge or production know how.”
“The release on DS93 was vinyl only and limited to 93 copies, this release is digital only, there's no right or wrong, new or old way, it's either about concepts or business sense. I don't think digital is the only way forward but as a commercial format, it's standard now. I'd love all my releases to come out on vinyl but sometimes labels choose not to, I'm just happy to still be releasing music 20 years on.”
Bloc File: Rob Hall
In a rare interview, the Skam label associate, Gescom member and Autechre tour DJ gives us an insight into life on the road with the Warp act, tells us about life his role in Gescom and talks about his acclaimed ‘mix a month’ series…
Do you DJ full time?
“Yeah, I’m quite busy at the moment, but it comes in stops and starts. There wasn’t anything for about six weeks and then I was inundated with gigs, but yes, it’s my source of income.”
One of your DJing jobs is as Autechre’s official tour DJ - how did that happen?
“I hesitate to say I’m the official tour DJ, but every tour they’ve done in the past decade, I have done. They’re my mates, so sure, it’s jobs for the boys, but we’ve grown up together and shared so much that I don’t think that anyone else do as compatible a job musically. I still don’t take anything for granted though - they might decided to take another DJ with them out on tour and I’d be stuck at home reading about it on the internet, going green with envy!”
Do you get nervous having to warm up for Autechre? Is it an ordeal having to play in front of their fans who have really come to see them?
“I don’t suffer from nerves to be honest: it doesn’t bother me if it’s 100 or 1,000 people in the audience, my job is to pay attention to what is on before and after me, I’m trying to fit my selection to suit that situation - a lot of it is second guessing people. My set at the start of the night is usually about two hours long, so there is no point in playing 130bpm techno, but in between the support act (who was SND on the last tour) and until Autechre came on, I ramp it up a bit. You get some geeks who come to the shows who only want to hear Autechre: for them, everything apart from Autechre’s show is an annoyance or a distraction, but they don’t concern me. They are not there to party and I’m sure they hate everything that I play. I’m there for everyone else, people who have come with their friends to have a good night out.”
So you must have some wild stories about life on the road… I assume you’ve bitten heads off parrots and engaged in pre-show satanic rituals…
“Broadly speaking, what you are thinking is correct; the stories about bands on tour are true. The tour manager we always use also does tours for other bands that are much more ‘rock’n’roll’. We are quite modest really because we’re all mates and there aren’t any egos to speak of. We can hold our own when it comes to smoking, but you won’t see us getting our balls out! Touring with Autechre is stress-free really, it’s all very friendly . There are some stories, but I have to respect the ‘what goes on on tour, stays on tour’ law; who am I or a small band like Autechre to interfere with a law like that?!
“The other big difference is that a lot of bands go on tour and only play three gigs a week and the tour takes four months, whereas we do a gig pretty much every night. We get into a routine and stick to it and it’s not a problem. The problems start when bands get a few days off and they start to get bored! The last tour Autechre did was two months. We did Europe and then took a week off and did the US, took a week off again and then did Japan, but we still did 50 gigs in two months!”
"We can hold our own when it comes to smoking, but you won’t see us getting our balls out!"
Do you play a different set every night on tour - do you have to drag big boxes of vinyl with you or do you DJ digitally?
“I use Traktor Scratch now using just a laptop. I’m sick of using turntables to be honest and I’m not really attached to or sentimental about vinyl. There is nothing attractive to me about touching a piece of black plastic or putting a needle on it. I come from a collector background, but if I hear a piece of music I want to own, I don’t care if it’s on vinyl or digital. Format has never really been important to me and nowadays I won’t buy vinyl if I can get WAVs. In the beginning, it was about owning every B12 release, every Metroplex release, every Transmat release, even if the quality of each release wasn’t amazing. I’ve got older (I’m 35 now), but even when I was in the middle of my vinyl collecting, I’d still buy CDs. It’s like if you walked into someone’s house and there was great music playing, you wouldn’t ask them if it was playing on a cassette or a CD, you’d just think it was great music. That’s what’s important - not whether you get it on vinyl or in ones and zeros.”
Are Skam releases so valuable now because they were made available in such limited editions? Do you think people who are into techno/electronic music like being presented with barriers, either to find music or to find out who the artist behind the music is?
“I’d be a multimillionaire if I had the answer! I’ve seen it with older artists too: if the quality is very high and it’s in short supply, if you hold back and don’t give away much information, stay mysterious, you can get people’s attention, it makes them want to listen. It helped Underground Resistance and it made people curious about Maurizio from Basic Channel curious because he would only play behind a curtain where you could see the vaguest outline of his face. I’m also guilty: I love the Ancient Methods records and sometimes wonder if it’s a well-known techno producer, but the reality is probably that it’s two guys who no one has ever heard of. Then there are people like Redshape and DJ Stingray who play in masks - this must be a huge physical inconvenience, as anyone who has stood on a stage to perform knows how hot it is. Unfortunately being mysterious and anonymous is kind of self-defeating in the end because when everyone finds out who you really are, you have to keep wearing a mask. Everyone knows who Redshape is, but he still has to wear a mask. The internet has made it almosy impossible for anyone to stay anonymous anymore.”
So what is the situation with Skam - it seems to be under the radar at the moment…
“The label is still there, but we stripped it back. Unfortunately, most labels realise too late that they cost more than they are earning and that’s why they close. Because we are all mates, it was easier to cut back on the label’s activities. We were always really lucky that the quality of the demos we received were very high. But after a while, the music Skam was releasing became so defined as a genre so we scaled back the releases (and the costs) and Skam is now being run by one person from a small office – which is positive too because you can pick and choose the releases more selectively.”
What’s your role in Gescom - do you bring the DJ input or are you involved on a technical level?
“That question has been asked so many times, but it’s very difficult to answer because the set up is so informal. Sometimes it’s my turn to sit there and go ‘no, not like that’ or to source loops or samples. It’s a broad role and it really depends on who is in the room at the time. There are no egos and Gescom’s members don’t have a specific purpose until a new idea comes along. This happens quite a bit though because the other people involved have so many inspirations. Without sounding too obtuse, I think you’d struggle to get a straight answer from any of the other members because Gescom isn’t a formulated entity: it has an open-door policy for new members. Most collaborations are quite contrived and calculated - this one is more freeform.”
Why did you start the mix a month series – was there a concept behind it and was it hard to do every month?
“It started in May 2007 and ended in April 2008. It formed as a concept because I was at Skam every day, it was a full-time job, and I needed another outlet and this sounded like such a grand concept. It was always possible to miss a month (I didn’t), but I ended up putting a huge amount of work into it. Getting the website together took a while and so did formulating some of the thinking behind it, like only making each mix available for a month. I did all the mixes chronologically and there were a lot of thought processes put into the mixes. They were seasonal, so some of the mixes in the summer had a lazier, hip-hop feel to them and the winter ones were darker, more moody. When I create something I have the tendency to pick it apart, and I wouldn’t do it again - I got too obsessed with it!”
On the back of the success of the mix series were you tempted to put out a commercially available mix CD?
“I knew that quite a bit of file-sharing went on, but in the first month there were about 3,000 downloads, and as the series went on, it was broadly up. By the end, there were about 5,000 downloads per mix. It’s the power of free music! Was I tempted to do a mix? Not really - when I started to do the series, some people seemed to think it was fine to pay 15 quid for a mix CD, but I’m actually surprised people still buy them. It’s a bit cheeky to be honest. It’s not an artist album, you are a selector: you are much better off posting your mixes for free, you reach a far wider audience. “
Did you get a lot of gigs due to the series - was this also a reason to do
it in the first place?
“Yes, the other motivation was that it was a way to get more gigs: there were two recordings of mine that were floating about that were about five years old and the series was a great way to my viewpoint across. I’m not dissing this interview because it’s an interesting chat, but I’d rather get publicity by people hearing me in a club or one of my mixes than by having my photo or opinions in a magazine. God knows we have enough people like that already in electronic music.”
Bloc File: I-F
In the latest Bloc-related interview, I caught up with Viewlexx boss, former CBS founder and one of the world's greatest DJs, I-F, to discuss his new internet radio venture, the inexorable rise of technology and who his favourite Miami Vice character is...
It's been about six months since CBS closed - do you look back on the time that you ran it with nostalgia?
"No actually not. CBS did its job very well and it was great as long as it lasted, but it wasn't really future proof. It felt not right to change it since it wasn't really designed to be something else as it was.
And starting something new gives me a lot of energy and brings lots of pleasure too."
It must have been a lot of hard work and maybe you were disappointed that it didn't connect with the amount of people you hoped for, but did you learn a lot from the experience? Did these experiences help when you went to set up Intergalactic FM?
"Disappointed at first because it seems impossible to get people out of the little squares they moved into. But CBS was a good prototype for Intergalactic FM. It didn't cost too much effort to get it running since the know how and the music databases were already available. Also the audience was already there so we didn't have to look for them. Intergalactic FM is breaking all CBS listener records already. We have more monthly visitors as CBS and during the daily non-stops often more listeners as with the CBS Top 100."
Do you see a parallel between you closing CBS and Clone shutting down - the label's statement seemed to suggest that the people who run it feel it is time for a change. Is that the way you felt when you closed CBS, that you needed a break?
"Clone made a very wise decision shutting down the Clone label as it is. I have to refer to the squares people are in again because Clone started as an 'electro' label but expanded its horizon and released all kind of styles in the last years. It's better to divide the styles over a few labels. When I shut down CBS I didn't need a break I just felt it was time for a change as explained earlier. I bore myself to death not being able to do this, I live for this."
Do you have people working with you on the new station? How is it different from CBS - have you more support from friends, colleagues? I see that a lot of labels are partners/supporters… Otherwise, is it the same music styles as CBS – or do you think there is a difference?
"CBS did not really start with an idea behind it other than wanting to play good music on the radio.
It was more like a hobby project with an ultra basic website. The name CBS was more or less a joke referring to the 'All Seeing Eye' broadcaster but in the end it was impossible to find via search engines and stuff and it was so hard to add community services to the site since it also was never designed for it. I just never thought about a community in the first place but it's a very important thing nowadays,
You can't survive without it. Intergalactic FM has been set up from a very different angle but still with the music as the number one thing. More people are involved with the things they do and that also helps to widen our perimeters. We are able to play a lot more music across the 3 channels, it's amazing how fast the databases for all 3 channels expanded. Intergalactic FM gives me also a lot more freedom the way it has been set up."
You said in a recent interview that you still believe in the power of internet radio - what do you think will make it powerful? Mobile devices? Digital audio in car stereos? Do you think part of the 'power' is the ability to discover underground/obscure music through sites like CBS/IFM - and to connect with like-minded people?
"Everybody has a computer nowadays and many people work behind their computer. It's the music that keeps you going and there's still plenty of people that like to be surprised. Mobile internet will become as common as GSM soon. And we're also currently developing mobile apps. And yes, the community thing is very important. The only thing we have to look out for is not to become mainstream. The world is not in need of more mainstream."
Do you think that technology is mainly beneficial or not for music? On one hand, the internet means people can discover great music, but it also means that people can illegally download music and producers/artists don't get paid, vinyl sales drop, shops close. Technology also means that more and more people can produce, but there is more and more crap out there….
"You gave the answer there yourself."
How does this affect you – do you find that it gets harder and harder to run a record label these days? Is it even becoming harder to buy new music on vinyl for your DJing? Do you think you will ever pursue a digital-only approach for your label and DJing - or will there always be a small following for vinyl?
"I went completely digital last year when it comes to Djing. I can be a lot more creative making my own edits and stuff and on top of it you travel light. Since I'm running a radio station I'm not much involved in the record biz anymore. Too much of a hassle to be honest. Playing a track on the radio has much more impact than releasing it on vinyl. I'm sure there always be a vinyl fetish community. Nothing wrong with vinyl as media, although it's obsolete."
Do you think the past few years have still been good for new electronic music? Have there been a
lot of great electro/Italo /Chicago-style releases?
"There will be always good music. You just have to dig for it or have an entrance. It's hard when you start getting an interest in music to find it because the good stuff has been covered by tons of crap. Same in the old days, but the difference is in those days a good record ended up more than once in the top 40 and that made an entrance to a certain genre much easier, even without the internet."
Regarding Italo, do you think there is a tendency among newer producers to focus too much on the music of the past and not to push their own style - is there a fear of messing with the past? What new school producers are taking chances and developing Italo into something new?
"I can't answer that. If somebody uses melody in his/hers music it's considered italo nowadays and that's nonsense. And I rather hear a bad attempt to make Italo as all those 'somebodies first Von Oswald synthesizer sleepy dub ripoff shit productions' the market seems to be flooded with."
You have been asked this many times before, but why did Italo get so popular in Holland? Is there something about this music that appeals to the Dutch mentality?
"Italo was basically only big here at the West Coast due to the rich pirate radio culture. I have good memories regarding those days and many many sleepless nights scrolling the FM band for 'exotics' and recording them. National Radio in NL has always been very ignorant regarding music with only a few exceptions. They were basically bought by the industry although they never will admit it."
You said a few months ago that you had built a studio with Gary and were getting ready to start producing again - have you started working on any music since then?
"No I only started to compose a few musix for IFM jingles."
There is a collection of Unit Moebius stuff available now - 'The Golden Years'. Was the Unit Moebius time a crazy period in your life? It sounds like you were a huge acid/Chicago freak. Do you think that with age, you have mellowed into a disco freak? Do you think the Unit Moebius stuff has aged well?
"I have always been a total disco fetishist since long before I got to know Unit Moebius, being involved in mixing for local pirate stations. Most mixes were Italo/Disco/Detroit/Chicago themed since I started buying records on a weekly basis around 1985. Italo was dying and transforming into some kind of trance house or whatever you call it, so I lost my interest. Chicago House and Acid were rapidly becoming my favourites and because of it and its limited availability, I started a record import mailorder service (Hotmix Imports) with a direct pipeline from Chicago. I pulled tons of Italo from there too. This went pretty mad and within two years I opened a record shop in The Hague and also started distributing the imports across the globe. On a sunny afternoon Guy from Unit Moebius/Bunker walked into my shop carrying two Bunker releases asking me if I knew that stuff. I had never heard of it, but it looked as obscure as those crazy imports from Chicago and sounded likewise so from one came another and Hotmix started to distribute Bunker via the channels already available. They also threw acid themed parties in squats those days and got invited to play there and that's how I basically got involved in UM and started touring with them. That acid thing went totally out of control and for a while nobody here in The Hague played or listened to anything else. Still on the radio I played basically what I always played, a mixture of styles with extra added acid of course and that later became my style for the dancefloor. At times electro themed, often heavy on the disco. Disco was my first love and it will be my last I guess."
Do you have any plans to release a third installment of Mixed up in the Hague - or do you think that there is no reason to release mix CDs anymore because there are so many free mixes on the internet?
"I never really thought about it but people love 'mixtapes'. I heard of a new mixtape label from around here called 'Medellin Mixage'!"
Apparently, you're a big horror movie fan: would you ever consider composing a soundtrack to a slasher movie?
"I'm not so into horror movies, more into 'violentas', cops vs robbers Italian style, women and children first, also French and US gangster cinema from the 70s is something you can wake me up for. But if I was asked to do a soundtrack for a slasher I would do it."
Finally, you know that the theme at the Sunday night at Bloc where you are playing with Alexander Robotnick and Metro Area is 80s Miami? Would you say you are more of a gangster or a cop? Were you a Miami Vice fan - and if so, did you prefer Tubbs or Crockett?
"Although I was a Miami Vice fan I didn't like C&T too much. The Colombian gangster dudes with their white, spoilered 500 SEL's emptying Uzi's out of the rear window were more my cup of tea. But I'm over that, nowadays I only dream of my own suicide cult..."
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